Condensation

[Jo Wills]

This is a query relating to my own house, but I imagine a common one. I have spent a bit of money and a lot of time improving the performance of my home, and the result has been significant. Thanks to extremely thick and properly installed ceiling and underfloor (dense) insulation, kitchen and bathroom extraction fans, lined curtains and 90% of windows covered and all draught stopped, plus a reinforced and insulated fire, our home stays drier and easily able to retain the heat we generate, hitting 23 – 24 degrees is common place, and prior to that temperature as soon as we close the curtains and start the fire its warm – this is remarkably different to prior the home performance improvement – thank you HPA trainers. My question and my problem is that in our bedroom I have made and hung super deluxe triple layer floor length curtains, which do a brilliant job of not letting heat escape (our room is at the opposite end of the house to the fire and used to be freezing to go down to at bedtime), however the condensation in the mornings is causing my wooden sills to form mold which has never happened before. The house is ventilated as soon as we wake up (and the condensation goes), but I am usually mopping up puddles from my sills which have formed in the early hours of the morning. I understand condensation is a natural process and my super deluxe curtains are partially to blame – and I don’t have insulated walls – but is there anything else I can do – i.e. install the plastic film?, or do I just accept the mopping up approach over winter? None of the other rooms have this problem.

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[Ian McChesney]

Hi Jo
Yes the combination of the extra thick curtains you have installed, Tauranga’s humidity, single glaze windows, and the fact that it is a bedroom where people sleep and breath and add to the moisture in the air, are all factors. I have a similar problem, but installed plastic window film this year, and the problem has largely disappeared.
cheers
Ian

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[Christian Hoerning]

Hi Jo,

In addition to Ian’s suggestion of installing window film, leave the window a crack open overnight, this will also make a big difference to the humidity in your room and air quality in general, helping you have a better sleep.
Cheers,
Christian

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[petermcdonald]

Hi Jo, Congratulations on all the upgrading – Sigh. Think Ian has covered the causative factors well
I note in my house in Dunedin (single glaze windows) that some mornings, the bedroom (1person) will be the only room with condensation on the windows.
One person I did and assessment for had a trial strip of glazing film (Enerlogic) on one problem window and noted that the condensation was much reduced on the filmed area compared to the surrounding glass – and it felt noticeably warmer than bare glass to the back of the hand test. I am using the term “glazing film” for films attached directly to the glass as distinct from window film attached to frames to provide a protected air gap between film and glass.

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[Sally Blackwell]

Hi Jo, I think Christian’s idea of leaving the window open a crack is a good one. The curtains will be keeping you guys snug on the inside and the opening will allow a little air movement behind the curtain.

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[Jo Wills]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I ran the idea by my partner of leaving the window open a crack at night but it was not well received – our windows are massive, big vertically opening things which we have on security stays but the problem there being: there is no such thing as a crack, the smallest opening is quite significant, I’d be willing to try it but Cory has said NO. Which leads me to the film being the alternative solution – although I have one concern that if there is still condensation (albeit a lessor amount), once the film is up, I have no chance to cleaning any mold that might still appear (without removing the film). I gave the windows and sills a vinegar/water clean over the weekend. The other potential compromise I thought of was to remove one strip of the draft stopping from each window, which would allow for some airflow which the window closed. It’s very interesting to see the house perform so differently as a result of all the things we have done, and now it’s a matter of tweaking the system to get it right.

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[Eion Scott]

Jo, you shouldn’t worry about not being able to clean behind the film. As long as you clean the window before you apply it, it won’t develop mould between the film and the glass. BTW, I’ve used it on my conservatory windows, and it seems to perform as well as or even better than the double glazing on the roof of the conservatory. Here you can see it on the triangular windows above the sliding doors, which are single glazed. Interestingly, even the fly screens on the outside provide protection against condensation. And it seems to work on aluminium frames even though there’s only a 5mm rebate.

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[Eion Scott]

Reposting with lower res file

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[Sarah Grant]

Hello all,

Since this discussion has morphed into window film, I thought I’d post a quick pic and some thoughts on my first trial of window film (at the Environment Centre).

I’ve just finished installing window film on a casement window, and found the process easy. I’m not ‘that’ happy with the end result though, mostly because of a slight cloudiness of the film, and some dust and fingerprint marks. My fault though as I got a bit enthusiastic and didn’t read all the instructions that said to clean any tables you cut on (I didn’t) and wash your hands before you start (I didn’t).

We don’t tend to get any condensation on any of the windows here as we’re only here for up to 8 hours a day with very few moisture making activities apart from breathing. I’ll also be installing film on my office windows which should make a considerable difference in heat retention and input required as it’s on the SE side and is always between 7.8deg and 8.3deg when I come in each morning.

Sorry for hijacking your post Jo!

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[Ian McChesney]

Hi – thought I’d add my long term experience with plastic film. When CEA first started sourcing and selling plastic windows (I think about 15+ years ago) a window in our very first trial lasted less than one day because a cat put its claw through it! At about the same time I put some up in my own home, over higher up lead-light windows, and while the film is looking a bit ragged around the edges and worse for wear the seal is still good. So, expected life…less than 24 hrs to 15 years and counting!
Apart from physical damage, the main reason for failure I’ve experienced (apart from my poor installation practice) is moisture getting between the film and the glass and fogging up. The moisture has come from the outside and inside. From the outside – through leaky lead-lights, through failure of external putty/paint seal, and in one case a dodgy frame joint. From the inside – this appears to have been when I installed film during winter, and the condensation had started and some moisture had penetrated into the frame.
Lessons – the windows need good putty/paint sealing on the outside, and unbroken paint on the inside. I’ve also been very wary about installing film in the winter unless I’m certain the frame is dry and room humidity low.
As for the visual quality of plastic film – personally I think it’s fine for out of the way windows, and where the view is not paramount. I’d struggle to recommend plastic film in places where you value the quality of the view.
Ian

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[Norman Smith]

Hi Folks,

I don’t know how to address this issue but in the last 12 months pretty much everything discussed here has been covered before. To repeat what someone once said, its deja vu all over again again.

I’m the owner of plastic window film 12 years installed, clear and doing well. I understand there is a premium product for external installation coming onto the market, try creating triple insulation with film inside and out, its worked for me.

Norman

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