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  • November 22, 2013 at 10:12 am #1484
    Jo Wills
    Participant

    A query has come to CEN about the cost benefit for low income households to switch from lines to bottled gas – is there any? And are there any other pros or cons about bottled gas that someone wanting to make this switch from a money saving perspective needs to be aware of.

    November 23, 2013 at 7:45 am #1489
    Norman Smith
    Participant

    First response Jo, there is a humungous amount of current information about this issue with the health and therefore financial impact of using bottled gas a principal manifestation of fuel poverty in NZ. Where to begin? Regards, Norman

    November 24, 2013 at 10:20 am #1490
    Andrew Pollard
    Participant

    There are economic issues to consider here which are interesting  but need to ensure solution doesn’t create other problems (ie added moisture load which impacts health, durability, etc.).    For these other issues the heater system needs to be considered in addition to the fuel type.   An important component of a gas heater is whether has a flue or is unflued. Portable LPG cabinet heaters are unflued,  Most  fixed reticulated gas heaters have flues but portable (bayonet fitted) reticulated gas heaters are also unflued (and if I remember rightly release more water than LPG cabinet heaters) . You can also get the big bottles outside feed into a fixed heater with a flue, Gas appliances tend to be designed to use one fuel (natural gas or LPG)  and may not  be suitable (or require modification) to use the other.

    November 25, 2013 at 7:56 am #1495
    Sally Blackwell
    Member

    Hi Jo – you’d definitely want to know whether its flued or unflued. Presume you’ve seen all the stuff on unflued gas heaters. Also as a starting point look up the cost comparison of fuel types on consumer (see below). There there are the costs of line charges vs cost of bottles and availability/delivery etc. This is just a purely pragmatic response. Suspect there are loads of other technical issues I’m not aware of.

    http://www.consumer.org.nz/reports/heating-options/fuel-prices-compared

    November 25, 2013 at 9:44 am #1497
    Christian Hoerning
    Participant

    Where reticulated natural gas is available it will almost always be cheaper to use that than bottled gas. The only exception could be where the household only uses gas for cooking. For space heating you obviously never want to recommend unflued heaters. Bottled gas comes in either 9kg or big 45kg bottles. On a per kWh basis the 9kg bottles are most expensive, 45kg bottles much cheaper but still more expensive than reticulated gas.

    For a quick comparison for space and water heating check these links to the EECA Energywise website out:

    http://www.energywise.govt.nz/your-home/heating-and-cooling/heating

    http://www.energywise.govt.nz/sites/all/files/hot-water-running-costs-graph-05-10.JPG

    We also have a more sophisticated tool for water heating and will release a similar tool for space heating next year:

    http://www.energywise.govt.nz/tools/water-heating

    Cheers, Christian

     

    November 25, 2013 at 1:15 pm #1499
    philgregg
    Participant

    I too would love to see the complete maths on gas bottles ( the different sizes) versus line gas. The per Kw cost of gas on line is definitely cheaper that electricity… but every time I Audit a house with both electricity and gas the over all cost are considerably higher than someone who just has electricity. The key component is 2 line charges.

    If a household is only using gas for Flued heating and cooking then owning the 45kg bottles or even renting may make sense.( I think) Unfortunately what I haven’t been able to ascertain is the per Kw cost of bottled gas. Line gas is between 8.5c to 9.5c. If anyone has the conversions or a formulation we could use it would be very helpful in the recommendation of what direction or investment for a homeowner to consider.

    November 25, 2013 at 3:18 pm #1500
    Jo Wills
    Participant

    Thanks everyone for those responses, and yep it was definitely a question referring to flued gas. I will collate these comments and take them back to the person who come to me.

    November 27, 2013 at 2:57 pm #1505
    Sally Blackwell
    Member

    Hi Phil – re: your comment

    Unfortunately what I haven’t been able to ascertain is the per Kw cost of bottled gas.

    See if this answers your question. http://www.consumer.org.nz/reports/heating-options/fuel-prices-compared

    Cheers

    November 28, 2013 at 11:45 am #1514
    philgregg
    Participant

    Thanks Sally, it was helpful.

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